Monday, February 20, 2012

What sexuality means to me


Now that I have entered my fourth week of being an asexual, I like to explain in detail of what sexuality really means to me. I brainstormed to find words to describe sexuality. In my opinion sexuality has five pillars. I will sum them up:

1. Transgression
2. Naughtiness
3. Shame
4. Humiliation
5. Desecration

Perhaps that I could actually collapse my five pillars into two. Transgression and naughtiness are very much related; you can make a transgression by stealing things and this is surely not sexually related. Naughtiness is obviously related to sex; you can actually describe naughtiness as the feeling that you have when planning or making a sexual transgression. But I was trying to define the major characteristics of sexuality, and obviously one of those characteristics is this feeling of naughtiness that is very distinct from any other feeling. You cannot describe it by any other means than to call it 'naughtiness'. But the feeling of naughtiness is also related to the other characteristics of sexuality. You use the other characteristics to feel naughty. Without the feeling of naughtiness, there is no sexuality.

Shame and humiliation are also obviously related; often you can humiliate a person by letting that person feel ashamed. Desecration is related to women being generally regarded as sacred. In my thought world, and I think in the thought world of many men, women doing sexual stuff is desecrating for women. Things such as: women showing their ass, women inserting objects into their orifices, or walking around with their clothes on, except their trousers and underwear, or only wearing their shoes. It is desecrating, but also humiliating and shameful. So there is a very deep relationship here. So perhaps I could collapse the five pillars into two:

1. Transgression/naughtiness
2. Shame/humiliation/desecration

I believe that transgression is the most important pillar. I become sexual aroused by seeing or doing things that are a strange and unusual. It arouses me to fantasise about transgressing an internal boundary. Usually these are related to things that are socially not very desirable, such as: being fully or partially naked, having anal sex, having sex with multiple persons, having sex with prostitutes, asking camgirls to show their ass, being a prostitute, etc. Doing or seeing things that are related to shame, humiliation and desecration are sexually arousing for me. And I think it is also true for many men.

There are three directions in which you can become aroused. One direction is to be the object of the shame/humiliation/desecration. The other direction is to be the actor who perpetrates the humiliation and the desecration upon another person, or puts another person in a shameful situation. A third direction is that you are a viewer of people being humiliated or desecrated, or people that are put into a shameful situation. This third direction, this last category is called pornography.

Humiliation and shame are related to the parts of our body that are usually hidden from view. Such as breasts, the genitals, the anus, the thighs and the buttocks. Exposing these parts usually fills a person with shame. Men don't hide their breasts, so it is not shameful for a man to expose his breasts. It must also be observed that the body parts hidden from view, are also very sensitive. So you can humiliate a person even more by stimulating these parts. For instance: by inserting objects into these parts, or by placing pegs. There is a long list of objects that you can put into a person, objects such as: broomsticks, handrails, bottles, penises, deodorant bottles, fingers, thermometers, tongues, and you name it.

I have also hesitated about adding an extra pillar. That pillar is about power. The power of men over women, the power of men over children, the power of men over other men. The latter is called homosexuality. But I hesitated to add this pillar, because it doesn't apply to situations where you humiliate yourself. Who has power over who when you humiliate yourself? But the same point can also be made about desecration. When you put an object into an orifice of yourself to get sexually aroused, do you desecrate yourself? Perhaps. You desecrate your own body to get turned on. If a man bangs another man in the anus, is he desecrating him? Perhaps, in the mind of homosexuals. But I cannot speak for myself, because I am not a homosexual.

Power is about subjugation. When you have sex with a person, and you are on top, you have not only humiliated that person, you have also subjugated that person. You are the winner. He/she has lost. He/she is in your control, and you have total power to let that person do all the humiliating, shameful and desecrating acts that you order that person to do. To arrive at such a situation people usually use emotional manipulation to seduce a person into entering such a position. People use the natural need of a person to be desired or loved. People usually give such a person compliments about his/her appearance, or give that person attention by asking that person to go to the cinema together. These tactics are all used to blind a person into believing that being humiliated, desecrated or being put into a shameful situation is actually a sign of being loved. But you should understand that if a person gives you compliments or asks you to go to the cinema, this could actually be a ploy to put you into an embarrassing situation where that person has total power over you. This is blatant sexual harassment. This is the reason I am hesitant to give compliments to women, or to ask them to go to the cinema together.

I can become absolutely sexually aroused by looking at women’s naked asses. Seeing women bending over, or seeing women walk while looking at their naked asses, seeing how the buttocks move while women walk. I also like to see how objects are inserted into the orifices when a woman bends over. I also like to insert my penis in a woman while she bends over, and to look how my penis disappears into the vagina, while her labia enclose my penis.

I wonder where my ass obsession comes from. I can remember that as a child I was very fond of my own ass. When I was very young, still 8 years of age or something, I took off my pants and lied down on the floor. I turned my head around to look at my own ass. I found that very arousing, lying there with my butt-naked ass on the floor. I can also remember that at the age of four or five, when I was afraid, my mother allowed me into her bed. She often slept naked. I was able to crawl down under the sheets and admire her naked ass as long as I wanted. I can remember that, when I was approximately 6 years old, a boy proposed to me to show our asses to each other in the bushes. That's what we did. I also found that very arousing. Perhaps that’s where my ass obsession came from. Nobody learned it to me. Perhaps being attracted to asses is natural after all. Perhaps not.

In fact, perhaps all sexuality is just a big fetishism. Many people believe that it is natural for men to be obsessed with breasts, buttocks and vaginas. And it is supposedly unnatural when you are sexually obsessed with ears, leather clothes, women standing with their bare feet on insects, guillotines, noses, etc. But perhaps this is not the case. I have read that men's obsession with breasts is typical for Western civilisation. Other cultures are more obsessed with buttocks, and not necessarily with breasts. So perhaps my obsession with asses is learned after all, somehow. Perhaps I was sent the message that you may not show your ass, and so it became a fetish.

I watched my first hardcore porn movie when I was about 13 years old. This particular porn movie is called "kinky business" (1984). It starred porn actors such as Tom Byron and Ginger Lynn Allen. It's about a teenage boy (Matt) fantasising about having sex with the girl next door and her mother, and about hiring a call girl. And because he couldn't pay the call girl, she offered him to use the house of his parents (who were on vacation) as a brothel for other girls. I found the film very arousing. The porn actors still had their pubic hair at that time. Anal sex didn't take place in this particular film. The sex in the film wasn't particularly violent. But it showed lots of transgressions. It begins with Matt showing his dick to his neighbour Gloria, who tells it to her mom. When Matt follows Gloria into the house, he stumbles unto her mother in lingerie, who says that he has been a bad boy and seduces him into having sex with him. The camera focuses on her ass when she gives him a blow job. He strokes her buttocks and he shoves her lingerie aside and puts his finger into her asshole. The film also has a scene where Gloria is showering, and where Matt suddenly and without warning enters the shower cabin with a big erection. Gloria doesn’t appreciate it at first, but goes along with it anyway. There also is a scene where a woman dances naked before a window of her house.

This film proves my point. Sexuality is all about shocking, the unexpected, and crossing boundaries that no man has dared to have crossed. It is about older ladies seducing teenage boys, showing your penis to a woman who doesn't expect and appreciate it, putting your fingers in places where nobody expects fingers to be pushed in, dancing naked at spots where people don't expect you to dance naked, fucking a woman doggystyle, ejaculating in the face of a woman, ejaculating over the back of a woman.

When I had become older, it was the internet which opened Pandora’s box for me. First I was shocked by the sexual content, it looked all kind of dirty. But I watched more and more anyway. Anal sex was really hardcore from my point of view, but slowly I got used to it. And that’s the problem. To get stimulated you slowly need even more hardcore and demeaning images. Pornographic pictures and movies were supplemented with watching live camgirls (I watched only the free streams at first). These camgirls did really hardcore stuff like pushing big dildos, fingers and hands into their anuses, or even eating their poo. When I watched the camgirls I thought, I could do this with real life women (not the hardcore anal stuff by the way). This led me to visit prostitutes. The stories of forced prostitution scared me off for several years. I was genuinely upset about finding out the truth. It made me start this blog. After several years I switched to paying camgirls to show their asses. When I slowly made myself belief I knew how to avoid forced prostitutes, I also turned to prostitution again. Until I also let my guard down and also visited the prostitutes I believe that are forced. At first I felt very guilty, but if you repeat a crime more often, that guilt slowly disappears. It is said that many people whitewash a crime they have committed, by repeating the crime over and over again. Perhaps it also applies to me.

I kept on expanding my sexual boundaries. If one sexual act becomes too mundane, it is replaced with the next more transgressing sexual act. I cannot imagine sex without the five/two pillars I mentioned. I have fallen in love with women, but I never felt sexually attracted to them. I never fantasised about having sex with a woman I was in love with. Romantic love and sexuality are completely separate domains in my opinion. I have never managed to start a relationship with a woman. I am just too shy. I am curious what would have happened if a woman wanted to have sex with me. I think I wouldn't have been able to get sexually aroused. I think I would be shocked, seeing the woman of my dreams without her clothes on, observing that she also - like all women - has a vagina and an anus. That without her clothes, she looks just like an ordinary porn actress, or prostitute, or camgirl. I think that I must turn a switch in such a case. I MUST see her as a porn actress, and I must do something naughty to get aroused. I MUST do something unusual, something transgressing. But how could I do that to the person I love?

But perhaps this is just it! Perhaps having sex with your loved one really IS the transgression!!! Perhaps this way I can understand how a man can develop an erection while looking at THE GODDESS, the woman of his dreams, his fairy princess; she has turned from a fairy into a porn slut. This is the shock, this is the transgression. And THAT gives men a hard-on. First you look up to her, then you throw her down: you have the goddess around your cock.

But it is so very humiliating to get an erection by looking at the naked body of the woman of your dreams. Or to fuck her doggystyle, and looking at her poophole down below, smelling the scent that comes from it. Or banging her like a rubber doll. That is very humiliating in my opinion. I think that I must turn a very very big switch in my head to achieve this.

By the way, I can absolutely imagine to kiss and caress the woman of my dreams. But with the clothes on. But that's a different realm. It has nothing to do with sexuality. You can kiss, caress, stroke the hair, massage everybody without a sexual connotation. If a man cuddles his daughter, is this sex? Of course not. If a hairdresser gives the client a head massage, is this sex? Of course not. If you stroke the hair of your pet, do you have sex with your pet? Of course not. So hereby I counter the criticism that sexuality is much more than the five/two pillars I mentioned. These five/two pillars are the defining elements of sexuality. Without these five/two elements there is no sexuality. Sexuality is definitely NOT intimacy.

Sexuality is transgression, sexuality is humiliation. Sexuality is about taboos. Taboos that must be broken. There is no sexuality without taboos. What will happen if all taboos in the world would disappear? I believe that will be the end of sexuality. Nobody would get aroused anymore. No more naughty things. It would all become mundane.

But that will never happen. There will always be taboos that must be transgressed. Give me something sadistic that really shocks people, and it must be broken. That's sexuality. If there is nothing that shocks people, we will be living in an awful world without any moral codes, without knowledge of good and bad. The only good thing is that sexuality has totally disappeared in such a world. No more taboos that must be broken. Our sexual fire is extinguished.

I hope that all sexuality and sadism will disappear from the face of the Earth. It will be utopia, but it must be a viable goal nonetheless. I hope tenderness and intimacy will stay. We must strive for a world where people respect and love each other, and where people don't disrespect and hate each other. A world where people act with tenderness to each other, and don't torture and objectify each other.

I found out that my ideas are not strange or unusual. There is a little voice in me which protests. It says that my views are too radical. Obviously there are women who enjoy sex, this little voice says. But these women are wrong, in my opinion. They support the system which oppresses them. They don't understand their subjugation, they have internalised their oppression, just like women in Northern Africa who support the system of female circumcision. If a woman asks you to have sex with her, you should politely refuse. If a person asks you to give him/her a slap in the face, would you comply? I believe you should tell that person that something is wrong with him/her. Of course you won't give that person a slap in the face. And the same is true for sexuality. If somebody asks for sex, you should refuse it. That person should respect you, and you should respect that person. Prostitutes have asked me to lick their vaginas or to suck their nipple. I complied, but I should have refused. They don’t have sex with you for their own pleasure, just like ordinary women do. And don't come with the argument that sex is necessary for procreation. We live in very modern times where you don't need to put an erect orgastic penis into a vagina. We can use pistons to extract the semen from a penis, and to put it into a vagina. Or we can just cultivate semen in laboratories. No man necessary.

But perhaps I'm too radical indeed, or I just have to break through my own internalised oppression. Perhaps I should just find a girlfriend anyway and have sex with her in a very divine and loving way, mutually respectful, if ever that may be possible. (I gave up all hope of finding a girlfriend a long time ago).

I will quote women who agree with me. I have stumbled upon these quotes by accident. I didn't know of these quotes. I am totally surprised that these women exactly put into words the things that I have said above. Just like them, I also dream about a world without romantic and sexual relationships, where people live in anarcho-syndicalistic communes, where all men live as women, and all women live as women, and where everybody is equal and respects each other, and where are all wealth in the world is shared equally.


"Romance is rape embellished with meaningful looks." Andrea Dworkin in the Philadelphia Inquirer, May 21, 1995..

"When a woman reaches orgasm with a man she is only collaborating with the patriarchal system, eroticizing her own oppression..." Sheila Jeffreys

"Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women's bodies." Andrea Dworkin

"Sex is the cross on which women are crucified ... Sex can only be adequately defined as universal rape." Hodee Edwards, ‘Rape defines Sex’

"Our culture is depicting sex as rape so that men and women will become interested in it." Naomi Wolf, The Beauty Myth, p. 138..

Under patriarchy, no woman is safe to live her life, or to love, or to mother children. Under patriarchy, every woman is a victim, past, present, and future. Under patriarchy, every woman's daughter is a victim, past, present, and future. Under patriarchy, every woman's son is her potential betrayer and also the inevitable rapist or exploiter of another woman," Andrea Dworkin, Liberty, p.58..

"Compare victims' reports of rape with women's reports of sex. They look a lot alike....[T]he major distinction between intercourse (normal) and rape (abnormal) is that the normal happens so often that one cannot get anyone to see anything wrong with it." Catherine MacKinnon, quoted in Christina Hoff Sommers, "Hard-Line Feminists Guilty of Ms.-Representation," Wall Street Journal, November 7, 1991.

"One can know everything and still be unable to accept the fact that sex and murder are fused in the male consciousness, so that the one without the imminent possibly of the other is unthinkable and impossible." Andrea Dworkin, Letters from a War Zone, p. 21..

"Sex as desired by the class that dominates women is held by that class to be elemental, urgent, necessary, even if or even though it appears to require the repudiation of any claim women might have to full human standing. In the subordination of women, inequality itself is sexualized, made into the experience of sexual pleasure, essential to sexual desire." Andrea Dworkin, Letters from a War Zone, p. 265..

"All men are rapists and that's all they are." Marilyn French in People, February 20, 1983..

"How will the family unit be destroyed? ...[T]he demand alone will throw the whole ideology of the family into question, so that women can begin establishing a community of work with each other and we can fight collectively. Women will feel freer to leave their husbands and become economically independent, either through a job or welfare." Roxanne Dunbar in Female Liberation

"We can't destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage. Robin Morgan, from Sisterhood Is Powerful (ed), 1970, p. 537

"Marriage as an institution developed from rape as a practice. Rape, originally defined as abduction, became marriage by capture. Marriage meant the taking was to extend in time, to be not only use of but possession of, or ownership. Only when manhood is dead--and it will perish when ravaged femininity no longer sustains it" Andrea Dworkin

"The nuclear family must be destroyed, and people must find better ways of living together.... Whatever its ultimate meaning, the break-up of families now is an objectively revolutionary process.... No woman should have to deny herself any opportunities because of her special responsibilities to her children... Families will be finally destroyed only when a revolutionary social and economic organization permits people's needs for love and security to be met in ways that do not impose divisions of labor, or any external roles, at all." Linda Gordon, "Functions of the Family," WOMEN: A Journal of Liberation, Fall, 1969

"God is going to change. We women... will change the world so much that He won't fit anymore." Naomi Goldenberg, Changing of the Gods: Feminism and the End of Traditional Religions (Quoted at beginning of From Father God to Mother Earth)

"We are, as a sex, infinitely superior to men..." Elizabeth Stanton, One Woman, One Vote, Wheeler, p. 58

"Who cares how men feel or what they do or whether they suffer? They have had over 2000 years to dominate and made a complete hash of it. Now it is our turn. My only comment to men is, if you don't like it, bad luck - and if you get in my way I'll run you down." Signed: Liberated Women, Boronia. (Herald-Sun, Melbourne, Australia - 9 February 1996)

Friday, February 17, 2012

An exchange with a woman about female sexuality


I had an interesting exchange on my blog with a woman who wants to counter my hypothesis that women are asexual. The exchange is here in this post:
Okay, let's start all over again

She sent this response:
Hi Donkey,

I'm fascinated by your blog, and thank you for very interesting information and thoughts... but I'm worried about where you're heading.

Have you ever thought of counseling? I know that this is not as common in Europe as it is here in the USA, but "checking in" on your thoughts and feelings with a non-judgmental, neutral counselor is very valuable... our thought have a tendency of reinforcing themselves if left on our own.

I take exception with what you say about woman's sexuality. I'm a woman, and I *love* sex! In its sweaty, breathless, hot version, not just for cuddling. None of my female friends are asexual either. In fact, about half complain that their partners can't keep up with them :-). It's hard to believe that my entire world is a complete statistical fluke.

The 1/3 statistic doesn't sound right - if this were true, why are vibrators the most sold sex toy? While I've run into studies stating that a large number of women can't orgasm from penetrative sex *alone* and require clitoral stimulation, I've never heard of the "one third don't like/need sex" study.

Remember, a lot of what is reported is based on social conditioning. Women are "supposed" not to like sex, or they're sluts - they consistently underreport sexual matters - at least in the Western World. I'm originally from Eastern Europe, where woman's sexuality is not considered "evil". I've never even heard the idea that women like sex less then men until I moved to the US! (In fact, even the old folk tales often talk about the ingenious ways women found to cheat on their husbands - not for the lack of love, but for the simple desire of hot, good sex.)

Hope you continue exploring, and don't give into the dark thoughts.
I respond:

What a nice and friendly mail!

But, what I mean is that women don't become horny. I explain a lot here:
Women don't like sex any more than young boys do

It's all about the testosterone! Women's testerone levels are no higher than 10-year-old kids!!!!

That study about that 1/3 of women being asexual is here:
Sexual Dysfunction in the United States ― Prevalence and Predictors by Edward O. Laumann, PhD; Anthony Paik, MA; Raymond C. Rosen, PhD JAMA. 1999;281:537-544.

Here's the free text

And here is a table with that number:
Table 1. Prevalence of Dysfunction Items by Demographic Characteristics (Women)

It turns out that also many women feel pain during sex (about 15-20%) and for many women sex is not pleasurable (about 20%).

I can imagine that women like the kissing, cuddling, fondling caressing, stroking the hair and such. Women like to be close to the persons whom they are in love with. Perhaps they even like the thought that the man they love has their penis inside them. Perhaps for women this is almost a holy moment, having the person that they love inside of them, feeling their lover's hot semen inside of them.

But I believe there is no horniness in women. I believe women have sex in a non-horny way. They don't become sexually aroused like men do. Women's bodies become aroused, but that has no relationship with what's happening in their minds. You can read a very interesting article here:
What Do Women Want? (By DANIEL BERGNER, New York Times, January 22 2009)

Meredith Chivers is interviewed here and she studied female sexual behaviour. It turns out that women's bodily responses don't correlate with what goes on inside their head. She tells about the idea that women's sexual response is merely to avoid physical harm; a penis entering a vagina without lubrication can cause injury, so the vagina starts to lubricate to prevent that from happening.

She responds:
Hello again, Donkey

Thanks for the response. But, whatever the studies you posted say, you're wrong. Women (I and others) *do* get horny. The best way to figure out how much women really like sex for sex sake is to see masturbation stats** - this removes any bad partner/bad experience biases. And we *do* masturbate a lot.

Kinsey reports:
"About 80 percent of adolescent girls and 90 percent of adolescent boys masturbate with frequencies ranging from once a week to about daily (Hass and Hass 1993, 151, 285)."

**Unfortunately, masturbation statistics are self-reported, and masturbation, especially female, is considered shameful in most cultures. By self-report, only 3% or so of women in Puerto Rico masturbate, while in the US it's 80+%... not very likely, we're not different species - you have to take ALL self-reported sexuality stats with a good dose of suspicion. In fact, *all* sexual statistics vary wildly between different countries. A comparison of collected sex stats by country at is very enlightening. In short, people often lie about sex. Men slant lies towards more sexual activity (to be "manly"), women towards less (to avoid being "sluts").

Studies of lesbian sexuality also seem to indicate that women are very sexual, orgasmic and arousable when left completely to themselves, thank you :-). Orgasm is indicative of hot, sweaty, horny sex, *not* cuddling. If we didn't like sex, wouldn't we just forget about it "with our own kind", eh?
(By the way, the old "Lesbian Bed Death" study that created the idea that lesbians have little sex has been long discredited, by lesbian scientists and various others.)

The amount of testosterone needed to get horny is NOT high. More testosterone over the *needed* amount results in increased aggression, NOT increased sexual drive, and besides, female sexual drive depends on a number of other hormones besides it - ask any woman and she'll tell you that her horniness changes a lot during her monthly cycle. As testosterone doesn't fluctuate, but estrogen & progesterone do, this is a clear and simple proof that a woman's sexuality is linked to more than just the amount of male hormones in her system.

Even the abstract from the first link you posted supports what I say:

"There is no direct linear relationship between testosterone levels and sex drive. A high testosterone level doesn't mean that a person is automatically horny. It also depends on other psychological factors, for instance: being tired or depressed. And also, it doesn't matter for your sex drive if you have a testosterone level above a certain value."

The second study you linked also claims:

"Moreover, sexual dysfunction is highly associated with negative experiences in sexual relationships and overall well-being."

"... it appears that sexual dysfunctions are highly prevalent in both sexes, ranging from 10% to 52% of men and 25% to 63% of women."

"Controlling for other demographic characteristics, women who have graduated from college are roughly half as likely to experience low sexual desire, problems achieving orgasm, sexual pain, and sexual anxiety as women who have not graduated from high school. Male college graduates are only two thirds as likely to report climaxing too early and half as likely to report nonpleasurable sex and sexual anxiety than men who do not have high school diplomas."

and the table you've linked to also shows significantly different answers for different education levels (true for men too).

You know what this tells me? There's a good number of *BOTH* men (up to 50%!) and women experience sexual dysfunction at some time during their lives.
From the numbers, it seems that a good amount of their problems comes from lack of education and options. Sexual pleasure is *learned* - if you're a thinking person with an ability to observe what feels good during sex and experiment (an astonishingly small number in the US - remember that the US is the most religiously fundamentalist developed country in the world), you will learn how to have sex that you enjoy, man or woman.

Anecdotal evidence: It took me two years to convince one of my partners, a "fallen Catholic", to keep the lights on during sex, and he refused to talk about sex at all for all the first five years we've been together... not surprisingly, sex was rarely pleasurable for either of us; and he's far from uncommon in the US. We're good friends and life partners, but there's little sexual desire on my part in that relationship, as "the return on investment" is, honestly, usually not worth it. I much prefer to simply snuggle with him and talk about safe subjects, like math and family. I'm polyamorous, and at the same time with another partner, for pretty much the same amount of time. He's an amazing, imaginative and very compatible lover who loves giving pleasure, and we can talk about everything sexual under the sun. No hangups at all. After 8 years, we're still hanging off the chandeliers at the tune of 5+ times per week, with me usually having multiple orgasms.

So, to summarize:
Men and women *do* have a different sexual response and needs. As a very broad stereotype, men are more willing to go for *any* sex. Women are more likely to wait for *good* sex. As women's response is slower (but hey, we get multiple orgasms in trade, so why complain!), this is understandable. As the studies put the average length of intercourse to around 8 minutes (US-considerably longer in few other countries), it's pretty clear why many women the (US) studies you refer to don't enjoy sex - most of it sucks!
And finally, contrary to popular lore, intimacy and closeness enhance sex for *both* men and women, especially past the first adolescent hormone rush, and in long term relationships. Good, hot sex and closeness are not mutually exclusive, *if* the partners communicate openly and honestly about their desires and needs (what is intimacy, after all, then knowing your partner deeply, after all?). It takes a long time to learn your partner's body well enough to be able to hit all the right buttons in the right order... While stranger sex can be awesome and exciting because the partner is new, generally second, third and so on encounter gives us opportunity to learn what works... if people are emotionally healthy enough not to be afraid of getting close to one another. Having unrushed, imaginative sex with a partner who knows what your every sigh and twitch mean, and knows exactly how to bring you the most pleasure at every moment is great - for men too. There are many men who become "regulars" of their favorite prostitutes, and come see the same person for years (or even decades) exactly for this reason. Many prostitutes (at least the independent ones who don't have to watch the clock and don't offer 1/2 hour encounters) also report that at least some men they see choose to cuddle and talk only.

We, men and women, have more similarities than differences, Donkey. The individual variation between the members of the same sex can be much bigger than the one between the genders. You're worried that you hurt and disrespect women every time you have a sexual thought, but don't you disrespect us more by claiming that you know what we feel, want and do better than we do, and claiming that anything we say (like, that we enjoy sex) that disagrees with your belief is a lie? (Please don't take that as my personal feelings. I really enjoy our discussion, and appreciate you responding to my comment.)
I respond:

What a long response! I enjoyed the read. I will make a blog post out of your response.

You say that women masturbate, and so this must prove that women have sexual feelings too. However, I doubt if there is a sexual motivation behind rubbing your clitoris. Perhaps it gives a woman a good feeling, without anything sexual behind it. Many children like to suck their thumbs. It gives them a good feeling, I think because the lips are very sensitive organs. But is that sexual?

I have read an article (EOS – Maandblad over wetenschap, nr.1 Januari 2012, ‘Seks onder de scanner’). It is about female sexuality. The article confirmed all my suspicions. Female sexuality, or if you may call it sexuality at all, is totally different from male sexuality. It is so totally different, that I wonder if I may call it sexuality at all. They mention two researchers (John Bancroft and Cynthia Graham) who say that men and women have different basic sexual patterns. For men the basic pattern is the fact that he has a penis, which becomes erect during sexual arousal, and he tries to gain access to a female partner. Sexual pleasure is central. A woman has a different basic pattern. She feels good when a man indicates that he finds her sexually attractive. If she judges him a suitable partner, then bit by bit she allows physical contact. By the time that sexual intercourse follows, her vagina is wet enough for painless penetration. As long as she can say 'stop' at any moment, she will enjoy the intimacy. For the woman, being desired and emotional intimacy are central. And they always want to have control over the situation. The researchers do admit that there is a certain variety among people, and that some men look more like women in their sexual behaviour, and that some women look more like a men in their sexual behaviour. The article explains that only men almost always long for sexual activity. According to Marta Meana women long for being desired. She says that for women the orgasm consists of being desired.

So what the sexuality for women? Being desired? Intimacy? That is no sexuality. Sexuality for me is: seeing a woman, seeing her breasts, seeing her butt-naked ass, seeing her bending over, wanting to push my peewee into her vagina. Sex for me is transgression, doing something naughty. Seeing a woman in her butt-naked ass is unusual, especially if she has her shirt and her sport shoes still on.

I have developed a fascinating theory about sexuality. Men have been studied who were castrated. It turns out that after a while they lose their sex drives, except for a minority who still are able to have sex after intense stimulation. Some castrated men don't lose their sex drives at all. That leads me to an astonishing hypothesis. I believe that male and female brains are identical (I have read a book written by Cordelia Fine who confirms this). If most men become asexual when their testosterone levels are low, the same must be true for women. Because women have low testosterone levels, most must be totally asexual, just like the castrated men. But because some castrated men don't lose their sex drives, there must also be a small group of women who have a sex drive too, just like most men. That's my explanation why there are some women who are porn addicts, and who visit male prostitutes. But they are just a strange exception. Just like the castrated men who have a high sex drive anyway.

What you say about a testosterone threshold above which it doesn't matter if you add extra testosterone (that's not a quote from the article by the way, but an explanation by me), that is still a high threshold even for women. When men fall below that level they mostly lose their sex drive. But all women are below that level. So they have no libido, except for a few strange exceptions.

So the end conclusion is: women long for intimacy and being desired. Her bodily sexual response is merely a response to physical or visual stimulation, which happens mostly outside her consciousness.

But I would like to say that there is nothing bad about intimacy and being desired. It is a much friendlier form of sexuality than the brute male sexuality with all its perversions. I wish that men would become that way. I also want to be an asexual, longing for intimacy, just like women. I haven't masturbated for three weeks, so I hope it will work.

She responds:
Sigh, Donkey. I'm pretty sure that nothing I say will change your belief, because it seems you *need* to believe women have no true sexual interest, and read any study you find in a very selective way, to reinforce that opinion.

You choose to devalue women's sexuality and orgasm, and realistically, if all the studies that prove that our brains light up in the same way and our genitals react in the same way (yes, using somewhat different stimulus) to excitement and orgasm, a few words from an actual, live woman will not change your mind. Nor the fact that majority of women masturbate and huge number watch porn -

"Theresa Flynt, vice president of marketing for Hustler video, says that women account for 56 percent of business at her company's video stores. "And the female audience is increasing," she adds. "Women are buying more porn." (They're creating more of it, too: Female director Candida Royalle's hard-core erotic videos, made expressly for women viewers, sell at the rate of approximately 10,000 copies a month.)"

Both of these activities have *nothing* to do with intimacy, but everything to do with getting off.

Your opinion is nothing new - throughout much of Northern European history, men believed that women would never have such base feelings like a need for sex. Only in the 20th century we finally managed to convince them otherwise... and until then, doctors hilariously (and sadly) used fingers and early vibrators to treat "hysteria" by providing "release" on a regular basis to "ailing" women - ie. giving them orgasms because they were going out of their heads with unsatisfied sexual needs. Orgasm by any other name is still orgasm.

... Anyway; if you're willing to challenge your belief system and see if it holds up, why don't you ask a real, live sex therapist? Most counselors have a pretty good knowledge of human sexuality. Book a session and ask. I dare you :-).

I respond:

In my opinion it would be highly unfortunate if women would have sexual feelings. I would have hoped that half the world population would be free of these feelings of sadism and self-debasement. I have watched a lot of pornography, and it all seems very vile and demeaning, especially towards women. I think it would be very shameful if it were true that most buyers of pornography are women. Why would they enjoy seeing their sisters being debased?
From what I know it is nonsense that many women watch pornography. Less than 1% of women frequently watch pornography.

You can read it here in this report (albeit in Dutch, see table 6.3, page 42):
this link
It is called: De opwinding voorbij - Aard, ernst en omvang van gebruik en problematisch gebruik van online pornografie in Nederland (IVO, 2011)

It turns out that (at least in the Netherlands) more than 80% of the women never watch pornography (that is: pictures or videos of sexuality). The same is true for about 45% of men. 13% of men watch pornography more than once a week. This is true for less than 1% of the women. There is a group of women who do watch pornography, but not often (see figure 6.5). I wonder if these women look at it to get sexually aroused. I believe they have other reasons to watch it. I think about sensationalism.

Many women do seem to masturbate (see figure 6.4, page 38), only not so frequently. More women than men don't masturbate, 40% versus 25%. There are many frequent female masturbators, let’s say 26% of women does if more than 2 times a month, versus 48% of men. I find that peculiar. I don’t believe it cannot be because of sexual reasons. Like I’ve said before, women’s testosterone levels are far too low to have a meaningful sex drive. I believe it’s because women find the physical stimulation pleasurable, without a sexual connotation. However, there are also a group of male castrates who still have a high sex drive. So I believe it's possible. Perhaps is also true that women masturbate to sexually arouse their boyfriends or husbands who watch their girlfriends/wives masturbating themselves. These women don't do it for their own pleasure, only indirectly perhaps, they are happy if their boyfriends are happy.

Also, women also seem to have a slightly higher sexual satisfaction than men (see figure 6.3, page 38). But I wonder if women mean ‘sexual’ the way men do. I believe for women sexuality means tenderness. I believe women misinterpreted the question. I believe if all real sexual acts, acts like penetration and stimulation of the genital area are removed, then it wouldn't matter for women. But it does matter for men. Women like to be close to the ones they love, and that is very satisfactory for them.

Indeed, I hate the thought that women have sexual feelings. How could it be, that these beautiful beings, these godlike beings have such vile and dirty thoughts?

Wednesday, February 15, 2012

A Bulgarian prostitute in Amsterdam and Rotterdam


And now, a new verdict from, which has the LJN-number: BV1281
You can find it here:

I will offer some translations of some segments of the verdict.

(All the testimonies are soberly represented in the verdict, and I changed the introductory lines a little bit)

1. The testimony of the suspect (September 7, 2010):

I got to know [T.A.] (the court understands: [T.A.]) in Bulgaria on the coast. We fell in love with each other. She has invited me to come to the place of her older brother. They really lived there under poor circumstances. [T.A.] told that her third oldest brother lived in a very small house with his in-laws, and he didn't feel comfortable there. She told that her brothers took care of her starting from the age of ten. Now she gladly wanted to help her brothers. She told that her oldest brother could become homeless at any moment. She then said that she would try to work in the Netherlands as a prostitute. She hoped that she would be able to buy a house for all her brothers.
We then went to Rotterdam. I have helped [T.A.]. We travelled to the Netherlands using my money. Near the house she found a club where she could work as a prostitute. She has worked there for a short time. She could earn more money behind the windows in Amsterdam. However, she needed documents for that. It concerned a Social Security number and a certificate of the municipality. We then registered ourselves. [T.A.] went with the certificate and her Social Security number to the Chamber of Commerce to arrange the necessary documents so she could work in Amsterdam. She asked if I could bring her to work and could pick her up. I mean from Rotterdam to Amsterdam. That's what I've done. We then decided together to move to Amsterdam, to the [address].

2. The testimony of [T.A.] (December 7, 2009):

The name by which I am generally known is [T.A.]. I have been born on January 3, 1987 in the little town of Tryavna (Bulgaria). I have been to primary school until the fifth grade. I have four brothers. They are much older than I am. My mother died twelve years ago. I have no contact with my father. I don't have a good relationship with him.
I met [suspect]. I knew that he mediated in bringing girls to the Netherlands who wanted to work in prostitution. I also wanted to earn money. [Suspect] said that his girls were happy and that he had bought for example a house for them of the money that was earned by them. [Suspect] told that if I would work for him, that I couldn't work on a 50/50 basis in the beginning. I could start on a 70/30 basis. So 70% of the money earned by me would be going to [suspect]. Together with [suspect] I let my identity papers be made in order. [Suspect] said that he would arrange a house and that he would take care of my safety. In June 2007, we drove in the car of [suspect] to an address in Rotterdam. The next day I started to work as a prostitute. Because I still had no documents I started to work in a club (Californie). [Comment by Donkey: they probably mean "Hotel California" on the Nieuwe Binnenweg 171 in Rotterdam, but I may be wrong]
After three months, [suspect] and I went back to Bulgaria. I had 3000 euro in my hands. I took 1500 euro with me to Bulgaria. I had earned a lot more, but [suspect] had that in his possession. I don't know exactly how much money that was. I had a relationship with [suspect]. I felt happy. I was convinced that later on I would be able to buy a house for my family with the money that was earned by me, and that later on I could perhaps start my own enterprise.
After two weeks, [suspect] and I went back to Rotterdam. My documents were in order now. I went working behind the windows in Amsterdam. That was somewhere in September 2007. I earned a lot of money, between 1000 and 1500 euro per week. The price of the room rent is already deducted from that. I worked between 19.00 and 02.00 hours. I worked six days per week, I was free on Tuesday. I gave the money that was earned by me to [suspect]. I travelled back and forth between Rotterdam and where we lived in Amsterdam. Somewhere in September or in the beginning of October, we moved to Amsterdam to the [address].
When [suspect] and I went to Bulgaria in December 2007, I received between 2500 and 3000 euro from him. I had worked between September and December 2007 for that. [Suspect] had the rest of the money that was earned by me. In January 2008 we came back to Amsterdam. There was little work. We have looked for work in Belgium and Germany, but the earnings were also bad there. [Suspect] and I went back to Amsterdam to our old address. I earned between 100 and 150 euro per day at that time. Approximately half a year ago (the court understands: mid-2008) we found a house on the [address] in Amsterdam. I paid 450 euro rent per month.
[Suspect] took away the money that was earned by me as a prostitute. He took it from my wallet. I received ten or fifteen euro to buy cigarettes and red bull. [Suspect] takes care of himself and of his family. He also buys little things for his car, all with my money.
He told that he had a friend who worked for him at Western Union. That friend was supposedly able to see how much money I transferred to my family. I had no other places where I could hide money.
I went to Bulgaria two times this year. I went three or four times during the past years. I took between 1000 and 1500 euro with me every time. The remaining money that I had earned was taken from me by [suspect].
[Suspect] and I had agreements about saving money. I requested him to save the money for me that I had earned. He promised that, but it didn't happen. All the money is used up. [Suspect] sends it to Bulgaria to redecorate his house with it. He otherwise spends it on expensive clothes, restaurants and cars. Thanks to me he drives in a BMW318i. The car is registered in his name and has a Bulgarian license plate.
[Suspect] also lets another girl work for him. She came living with us three weeks ago. He came home one evening with the girl. [Suspect] learned the girl what to do as a prostitute and how much money she had to ask. I know that she also had to hand over her money to [suspect]. She told me that. Her name is [E.T.]. [E.T.] is 20 years old. She cannot read or write.
I press charges because I've had enough of it. I don't want [suspect] to take away my money every day that I earn with my body. [Suspect] promised that he would help me and my family. That's why I stayed with him. I have always loved [suspect], or was it actually more like pity, but he sees me as his woman worker.

3. The testimony of [T.A.] (December 9, 2009):

Our relationship has changed approximately half a year after our collaboration. He (the court understands: [suspect]) promised an awful lot, but he didn't keep his word. I found out in the  beginning of 2008 that he didn't financially help my family. He did promise that. I furthermore found out that he simply spent the money that he was supposed to save for me, while it was my money.
He took away my money from the very beginning. Most of the time he waited until I had earned between 1000 and 2000 euro and he took it away when I came home. [Suspect] transferred money via Western Union. [Suspect] was in Bulgaria during the last two or three months and I had to transfer the money that I had earned to Bulgaria.
I had no problems with [suspect] until the summer. My family has opened my eyes, they saw that he abused me. I earned a lot of money in Amsterdam and I wanted to see money as well. I wanted to keep my earnings for myself.
[E.T.] also worked as a prostitute. She still hasn't been registered at the chamber of commerce and she has no passport. That's why she worked on order via the telephone in Rotterdam. The client phones to [suspect]. He then brings her for an hour to the client. He took away all her money. Everything was for him and nothing for her.
I transferred money this year via money transfers to [suspect] to the name of his mother [N.M.] and several times to his name. And when I sent money to my youngest brother [N.A.], then [suspect] took it away from him. I then had to transfer the money to the name of [N.A.] and then [suspect] took it away.

4. The testimony of [T.A.] (December 16, 2009):

I have stated that I transferred money to my little brother. My little brother and [suspect] have lived together in Bulgaria in September and October 2009. I transferred money to my family and to the family of [suspect], his mother actually. I also transferred money to my little brother, [N.A.]. [Suspect] was afraid that his name would appear on the receipts. [N.A.] took up the money and gave it to [suspect].

5. The testimony of [E.T.] (December 8, 2009):

I was born on [1989] in Plovdiv (Bulgaria). My father and mother are divorced when I was six years old. I went living with my father and grandparents. I have only done the first grade of primary school. I cannot read or write. My father is ill and I had to take care of him. I had to work on the field at my grandfather and grandmother. I was 14 or 15 years old when I went working in a factory. I don't have contact with my mother anymore. I was sixteen years old when my daughter was born. The father is nine years older than I am and he maltreated me. Because the factory went bankrupt, I had to find other work. In August 2009, I ended up in prostitution in Antwerpen. I worked for a man named [M.]. At a certain moment, [M.] came with a man named [B.] (the court understands: the suspect], he came to look at me. I had to take my belongings. That same evening, [M.], [B.] and [comment by Donkey: a word is missing here] went to the Netherlands in the car of [B.]. I was brought to the house where you encountered me yesterday (the court understands: [address] in Amsterdam). There was a girl in the house named [P.] (the court understands: [T.A.]). On the third day, [B.] brought me to a client. I was brought to the home of the client until the front door. [B.] negotiated with the client and I had to go inside with the client where we had sex. The client then had already paid the money to [B.] (the court understands that at this point, the witness switches over from the description of a concrete case to a description of the usual procedure.) He always kept waiting in the neighbourhood until I was ready. I had agreed with [B.] that we would do 50/50 with the money. I had told that in Antwerpen/Brussel I haven't received money at all. That's what [B.] also didn't agree with. So we agreed 50/50, but because he had financial problems in Bulgaria I would give all my money to him and he would pay me back later. He promised me to also arrange my documents so that I could work for myself. I knew that it wasn't legal, the way I worked.

6. The testimony of [E.T.] (December 9, 2009):

I made nothing out of my earnings in the Netherlands. I have sent 270 euro in total to my family in Bulgaria. [B.] said this month that I had to give him all my money. I would get that money back later. I have the idea that I won't get my money back because he transferred it to Bulgaria.
[P.] (the court understands: [T.A.]) worked in the display window most of the time. I have seen that [B.] also took away the money that was earned by her.

7. The testimony of [N.A.] (who is the brother of [T.A.]) (July 6, 2010):

I stayed in the house of [suspect] during the month October of the last year. That was at the time when [T.A.] went to the Netherlands and [suspect] didn't go with her. You say that it has emerged from the file that [T.A.] has transferred money to your name via Western Union [comment by Donkey: I think that 'my name' is meant]. I answer that after I collected it, I gave the money to [suspect]. Without keeping even a penny. I was with him in Zlatar to receive the money to my name and to give it to him, so that he needn't receive the money himself, which could raise doubts among people. The money was meant for him, not for me. I have asked [T.A.] what had to happen with the money, and she said that I had to give it to [suspect].

8. The testimony of [N.M.] (July 7, 2010):

[T.A.] (the court understands: [T.A.]) was a girlfriend of my son (the court understands: the suspect). [T.A.] sent money, we haven't asked money from her. We have received money from her several times. I don't know how much. I knew that she had transferred money, because she phoned then. I then worked in Shumen and I collected the money myself. I didn't give that money to [suspect], but to my husband. She sent the money for us. We used it for our needs.

9. (Comment by Donkey: I skip a bit here)

Total amount of money transferred by [suspect]
In the period from March 19, 2008 until and including December 12, 2009, multiple transactions (money transfers) have taken place via the Western Union Bank. The suspect [suspect] and [T.A.] have transferred money multiple times to persons in Bulgaria.
In the period concerned, [suspect] has transferred money 28 times in total, with a total amount of €3610. A part of these money transactions has been transferred to the following persons:
-his father (7 transactions, total amount €1340)
-his wife (7 transactions, total amount €1000)
-his mother (5 transactions, total amount €740)
-his nephew (4 transactions, total amount €290)
-complainant [T.A.] (2 transactions, total amount €100)
-a girlfriend of his wife (1 transaction of €50)
The other transactions have been transferred to persons of whom the relationship with the suspect is unknown.

[Suspect] in Bulgaria
From May 20, 2009 until June 29, 2009, no money has been transferred by the suspect from the Netherlands. He possibly stayed in Bulgaria at that time.
On August 10, 2009, money has been transferred by the suspect to Bulgaria for the last time and subsequently no transactions have been made in his name until October 31, 2009.
On September 2, 14 and 19, 2009, the suspect stayed with certainty in Bulgaria. On these dates, [T.A.] has transferred amounts of money to the [suspect], who stayed in Bulgaria at that moment. The receiver has to legitimise while collecting the money. The data of the identification card used is noted down by Western Union and is reported in the file. That data corresponds with the passport of the suspect.

Total amount of money transferred by [T.A.]
In the period concerned, [T.A.] has transferred money 64 times in total, with a total amount of €10,345.50. A part of these money transactions has been transferred to the following persons:
-her brother [T.A.] (16 transactions, total amount €1370)
-her brother [N.A.] (20 transactions, total amount €2580)
-her supposed brother [R.A.] (4 transactions, total amount €400)
-the [suspect] (2 transactions, total amount €220)
-mother of the [suspect] (8 transactions, total amount €2465)
In the period September and October 2009, the complainant has transferred money to her brother [N.A.], 17 times in total.

(comment by Donkey: I stop here)

Wednesday, February 08, 2012

I am becoming a convinced asexual


Since about a week and a half I haven't masturbated. And I must say, I feel quite relaxed about it. I haven't become hypersexual after such a long time without masturbation. I hope I will become totally asexual. I want to be a convinced asexual. I want to have nothing to do with sex anymore! It makes me sick! That awful pornography! That awful prostitution! Watching all these nude pics and videos makes me ill. Masturbating always triggers me to find more stimuli. For example, paying webcam girls to show their naked asses, or visiting prostitutes to fuck them doggystyle. It makes me sick! It makes me feel guilty. It makes me feel numb. And even the feeling of guilt is numbed after a while.

I still have to clean up my hard drive, getting rid of all the pornography. And I should cancel my memberships of all those stupid webcam sites. On the other hand, I do feel a little bit of pain, to get rid of all these porn videos I have collected, and to get rid all the video archives on the webcam site. I feel a little bit of protest inside me. Perhaps I just leave it that way, and don't think about it.

Another problem is, what if I do actually start to masturbate again? Must I give up then? I have once promised myself never to watch pornography again. I succeeded for three months. Then I cracked. It became a masturbation fantasy to watch pornography. I think there I made the mistake. I should also have stopped masturbating. The pressure became too high. I should keep the pressure low. And I think it is working now. I think that if I do masturbate once after all, I mustn't give up hope, acknowledge my mistake, and start all over again. At least I didn't hurt someone. I hurt myself, but not somebody else. But masturbation triggers evil thoughts. I think it is masturbation that starts all my fantasies. An orgasm is like cocaine. You need more and more stimulation to keep the same rush. First the fantasies are benign. But they become more and more transgressing, even aggressive. Only visiting webcam girls and prostitutes could give me the same adrenaline rush.

I really have abused persons. This must stop. I have to take drastic measures. The money I put into the sex industry triggers evil people to recruit even more poor women to work in this awful business, this very evil, degrading, inhumane business. But I knew that all along. And this makes it all the worse.

I should have known better. Visiting a prostitute is really really evil. All sex is evil by the way, also with the ones you are supposed to be married with, or have a romantic relationship with. But visiting a prostitute is a thousand times more evil. There is no chance that your lover is coerced by a third person to have sex with you. For a prostitute this is different, there is a fair chance that she is coerced. And many prostitute absolutely hate their work (I know that from experience!), even if they are not forced by a third person. They have to go through the repeated sexual harassment every day. I knew that for a long time. But I still visited prostitutes. I am so evil! I must absolutely stop doing this. I have to take very drastic measures. No more masturbation! No more pornography! I am a sex addict. Like alcohol addicts are advised never to drink alcohol anymore for the rest of their lives, I should keep away from sex for the rest of my life. This is the way for a sex addict.

And there is another problem. I dream about having sex. I even had a nightmare that I masturbated. When I woke up I realised to my relief that it was just a dream. I also dreamt that I spent the night on a bunk bed in a room filled with bunk beds. A girl slept in the bed below me (I was in the upper bed), and she woke up. She stood next to her bed. She was in her underwear. She told me that it was impolite of me to look at her. She looked really sexy by the way. I wonder where my dreams are going. My subconscience is fighting back. This is like cold turkey. At least I hope my sexual feelings will be limited to my dreams, and I hope they will slowly disappear.

I will report on my blog how I'm doing without masturbation. If I will break my promise I will confess immediately. I need a lot of social control, I hope you people who will read this will help me giving me that social control. I will give regular updates about my progress.

Monday, February 06, 2012

A very exciting story about a voluntary prostitute!


After all these negative prostitution stories, I want to bring a positive one. Although I doubt if this story is for real. It is from a magazine called Woamm (19-25 June 2008). The article is named "Mijn vrouw speelt de hoer" (My wife plays whore). It contains three stories of couples of whom the wife works or has worked as a prostitute. The article claims that there are 100,000 women in the Netherlands who work in prostitution without the knowledge of their husband. I think this claim is false, by the way. I say it is possible that the magazine simply concocted up the whole article, including the stories. This is known to happen in the world of journalism. Whole interviews with celebrities are concocted up.

You can doubt if many forced prostitution stories are real, but the same is true for the positive stories. Actually, it is easier to prove that a person is forced to work in prostitution, considering all the human trafficking lawsuits. There are no lawsuits to prove that prostitutes work voluntarily in prostitution and enjoy their work. So we can absolutely know for sure that there are prostitutes who are coerced to work in prostitution, but we can never know for sure if there are also voluntarily prostitutes. It can always turn out that a supposed voluntary prostitute was forced to work in prostitution after all. Forced prostitutes are known to say to outsiders that they work in prostitution of their own free will and that they even enjoy their work. But to come back to the Woamm-article…..

One story from the article in the Woamm-magazine catches my imagination. It tells about a woman who works in prostitution just for the thrill of it. She became sexually aroused by having sex with an ugly truck driver with greasy fingers, for money. This is actually a sexual fantasy of myself; that I am a young and beautiful female prostitute who has sex with greasy and ugly men. It is the only way I can imagine that a woman says that she enjoys working in prostitution. But my fantasy is a masochistic fantasy. So in my opinion, women who enjoy working in prostitution must surely be masochists. There is no other way. Although some prostitutes say that they find it cosy to be with clients and to talk with them. I can also imagine that. But not that they genuinely like the sex with clients, except if they are masochists.

As you might all understand I will translate this story for you:

Bram (52) and Marijke (38) are married for fifteen years and have no children. Bram works at a food wholesale business and Marijke work two days a week at the reception of a medium-sized business. Marijke began with her hobby five years ago, without Bram being informed of it.

Marijke: "I have never finished my study. I was 20 years old when I got to know Bram and three years later we married. Bram was already financially independent at that moment, and it was clear that I didn't need to work. The first years were not difficult. I furnished our house, I let the garden be tidied up and I was busy the whole week with little women's things. Manicure, shopping, hairdresser... I had an appointment for every single day and a lunch with somebody. After a couple of years we gladly wanted to have children, but unfortunately that didn't happen. When I was told that I would never have children myself, my little world collapsed. Suddenly everything was shallow and meaningless. I didn't feel like working for money. I couldn't have babies. I didn't amount to anything in our society. In the meantime I was 33 and I felt old. A combination of circumstances caused me to be in a restaurant alongside the highway that week, where I normally never come. I was approached by a man who asked me without batting an eyelid if I wanted to pamper him in the cabin of his truck. I didn't even feel insulted, I found it rather laughable to be honest. "Why should I do that?", I asked him. Because he really wasn't even that attractive. "20 euro for wanking, 50 for fucking. And if you give me a blowjob I will make it 75", he answered. I still remember that I thought that I really had to dress differently indeed, since this man thought that I would take my clothes off for next to nothing, but it aroused me so incredibly that I started to negotiate. "100 euro, and you are not allowed to finger me!" The idea that those stained fingernails would enter my clean little cunt was unbearable. He agreed and I walked with him to his car. I washed his cock with the little bottle of spa I had with me, put on the condom that he handed me, and I went working. The act itself was not arousing. The situation however was so horny that I became soaking wet. He couldn't stay off my tits and it was over within approximately seven minutes. Then I stood next to his cabin, with two notes of fifty in my hand. I put it away at home and I continued with the normal things. But three weeks later I wanted to do it again, and I drove again ninety kilometres to the restaurant concerned. I sat down at the same little table and within a quarter of an hour I had a bite again. It became an addiction. One time per week, sometimes two times, I let myself be fucked by an unknown man. Never two times the same man, always 100 bucks."

Bram: "I already had my own business when I was thirty, and what's more, the business was also doing very well. I made some investments, bought some buildings. Because of an unlucky combination of circumstances and an unreliable business partner, I suddenly had almost lost everything. I did have some capital, but I couldn't reach that just like that and I was awfully worried. About how things should go further, what would Marijke think. I had the feeling that I had failed and I had a little breakdown. We have talked a lot during that time. I felt so betrayed by my partner, that I impressed upon Marijke that she should never have secrets for me. I saw her change colour and I immediately knew that something wasn't right. I thought that the ground sank away from under my feet when she told me that every now and then she had sex for money. Very quickly it turned out that it was for the kick, not the men and certainly not because she was unsatisfied. I would have found it very awful in a sexual as well as in a financial respect. But we had sex approximately three, four times per week and she had her own credit card, so she never had financial problems. I had to become very used to her kick. At first I also forbade her to do it. Only later I saw how she enjoyed doing it, how she blossomed. I wanted to accompany her and I sat down at another little table. I saw how she was picked up, how she entered the truck. I had to control myself not to open that door and to drag out both Marijke and that guy, but within ten minutes she stood outside again. I asked her what kind of things she did with that money. She then said that furthermore she did nothing with it. For her it wasn't about the money, but about the kick, she said again. After arriving at home she showed me a vanity case, which was under the bed. Completely filled with notes of 50 euro! A quick count told me that it was more than 23,000 euro. Just under our bed! We still did talk about that a lot. Especially about her safety, because there are quite some creeps among them. But in the meantime we have reached a beautiful compromise. She does it Thursday morning and Saturday evening. Then I just accompany her. To be honest it has also become my kick in the meantime. We don't need the money anymore, my business runs well again. And it still lies under the bed like always, because otherwise the tax department will nibble from it. We are closer than ever!"

Saturday, February 04, 2012

Saban and the gang - part 3


Let's start all over again. I have no choice but to continue, my conscience has to stay active. I have deep psychological problems. I am in a very bad mental state. Real deep shit.

This is part three in the series of translations I made of segments of verdicts on, about a gang led by Saban B. In this file I use two verdicts.

Now I translate segments from a file with the LJN-number: BP6723, you can find it here: (verdict regarding Tayfun K)

(The interviews in the files are not literal representations of what people said, but are in fact soberly represented, except for the wiretapped conversations. I altered the introductory lines to make them more readable. And I completed some of the initials of the perpetrators.)

1. The testimony of witness [person 25] (December 9, 2006):

[Person 8] and I worked in prostitution in Alkmaar. Friends of ours, [suspect Saban B] and suspect [Tayfun K] told us that we could better go to Amsterdam. From the moment we worked there, we had to hand over money to them. [Suspect Saban B] arranged my financial matters and [suspect Tayfun K] that of [person 8]. We paid between 500 and 600 euro per day. We also had to pay the room rent of 130 euro. I received 50 euro for myself from [suspect Saban B]. In November I was molested by [suspect Saban B]. He asked me to take off the earrings and then beat me in the face, I slammed against the wall. [Person 8] and [suspect Tayfun K] were there. Then he beat once again, I slammed against the wall again. It hurt and I became dizzy and nauseous. He thought that I had worked without condom. [Suspect Tayfun K] was also there. He sat on a chair. [Suspect Saban B] said "If I should hear another thing like that, then I'll finish you". He was beside himself with anger and he was aggressive. I am afraid of [suspect Saban B], I have seen a firearm with him in the Porsche. [Suspect Saban B] just always has a dagger with him and a little bag with money.

2. The testimony of witness [person 8] (December 9, 2006):

I went working in prostitution with my girlfriend [person 25] in Alkmaar. During the summer of 2006 we met [suspect Tayfun K] there. He was a client. He came more and more often. We phoned more and more often. I started to fancy him. He was very friendly towards me. When he came, it always was with a big group. The boss was [suspect Saban B]. I became the girlfriend of [suspect Tayfun K] and [person 25] of [suspect Saban B]. The men took us everywhere. We also resided in the most expensive hotels with whirlpools. In the beginning the men paid everything for us. We gave all the money that we earned in prostitution to [suspect Saban B] and [suspect Tayfun K]. I trusted them. We received €50 per day for mobile telephone credit and food.
On November 7, 2006 we went with the four of us to Den Haag. We had to walk some distance behind the men. When [suspect Saban B] kept standing in front of a window prostitution building, that was a sign for us that we had to ask there if we could work there. That turned out to be the [address]. A number of weeks ago, we were picked up by [suspect Saban B] and [suspect Tayfun K]. We went to the Ibishotel in Den Haag. [Suspect Saban B] said to [person 25] that she had to take off her earrings.
I saw that [suspect Saban B] beat [person 25] suddenly deliberately and with force with the flat of his hand in the face. This blow was so hard that she landed with her head against the wall. I saw that [person 25] immediately started to cry and ended up in a sort of shock. After this, I saw that [suspect Saban B] beat [person 25] once again deliberately and with force in her face with the flat of his hand. I was terribly shocked by this. I saw that [person 25] - as a result of this molestation - developed a bruise on the side of her head. I also saw that a segment of the white of her eye had become red. The next day, the hand imprint of [suspect Saban B] was still visible on the face of [person 25]. [Suspect Tayfun K] was also present during the molestation. He just acted as if he hadn't seen it. He looked a bit downwards. After this, I went downstairs together with [suspect Tayfun K] and he paid the hotel with my money. [Suspect Saban B] and [person 25] went outside. That same evening, I have proposed to [person 25] to flee. [Person 25] gladly wanted to do this, since [person 25] and I had become very scared of [suspect Saban B]. From that moment on, we wanted to have nothing to do with him.

3. The testimony of witness [person 8] (March 18, 2007):

We have also worked in Germany for a short while. [Suspect Tayfun K] brought us there. We didn't want to work there because we had to work naked and we had to give blowjobs without condom. I have phoned [suspect Tayfun K] and I said that we didn't want to work there, that he had to pick us up. [Suspect Saban B] dropped by there once. He then took our money with him. We didn't earn very well there. It was 200 euro. [Suspect Saban B] said that it even wasn't enough for the petrol. They have dropped by two times in total. After Germany we went to Den Haag. That was on the [address].

4. The testimony of witness [person 8] (May 18, 2007):

We always had to report everything what we did. We weren't allowed to go out and we had to pretend that we didn't know [suspect Saban B] and [suspect Tayfun K]. I was only allowed to go out with [person 25]. When we went to the restaurant next to the Galabar we had to report in detail with whom we spoke or who laughed to us. And we had to indicate with an accuracy of a minute when we left the restaurant again.

5. The testimony of witness [person 8] (July 4, 2007):

[Suspect Tayfun K] proposed to me to work during the night. He once phoned me at 6 o'clock to ask if I was at work. I have seen a weapon in the home of [suspect Saban B], a pistol. It lay in a drawer. [Suspect Tayfun K] always had a knife with him. According to him, every Turk has that.

6. The testimony of witness [person 8] (April 3 and 18, 2008):
(April 3)
In the beginning I was in love with [suspect Tayfun K]. He was kind towards me. That other one, his boss [suspect Saban B], incited him. I worked for [suspect Tayfun K] but I was particularly afraid of [suspect Saban B]. [Suspect Tayfun K] said to me over the telephone "I will give you my boss". He cursed that I had to earn 1500 euro or else I had to leave the Netherlands. [Suspect Saban B] and [suspect Tayfun K] then arranged our workplace. With us I mean [person 25] and I. We first were in Alkmaar. We finally got a workplace in the [address] in Den Haag.
(April 18)
We were brought and picked up from work. [Person 25] and I were often phoned around 17.00/18.00 hours. Then we were waiting and we were picked up. After work, [suspect Saban B] and [suspect Tayfun K] stood outside in front of the display windows. We then put on other clothes and went to them. After this, we went to the restaurant and subsequently to the hotel. We lived in the Ibishotel. We have worked every day. I earned between 500 and 700 euro. I gave everything to [suspect Tayfun K]. The man on photo 34 is [suspect Tayfun K] (the court concludes: [suspect Tayfun K]). The woman on photo 59 is [person 25] (the court concludes: [person 25]). The woman on photo 58 is me (the court concludes: [person 8]). [Suspect Tayfun K] said that I was a girl that deserved expensive clothing, gold, an own house and car. I believed him. When [suspect Saban B] and [suspect Tayfun K] paid for these expensive hotels and food, I did actually know that we had to pay that back. That was before we went working for them in prostitution. I went to Belgium with [suspect Saban B] and [suspect Tayfun K] and [person 25], [suspect Saban B] stayed there and we travelled further to Germany. I have been continuously in the company of [suspect Tayfun K] and [person 25]. I believe the brother of [suspect Tayfun K] has brought us, [person 25] and me, from Germany to the Netherlands. [Person 25] and I have worked in Germany. [Suspect Tayfun K] has phoned with his brother. He could help us because he lived in the neighbourhood and he brought us to the Netherlands.

7. A wiretapped conversation between [S] [suspect Saban B] and [T] [suspect Tayfun K] (October 31, 2006 at 15.07.42 hours):

S.: What are you doing?
T.: Go pick up the girls and let them eat somewhat.
S.: Just take it just pick up the girls and let them eat somewhat. You can pick me up after this.

8. A wiretapped conversation between [S] [suspect Saban B] and [T] [suspect Tayfun K] (November 1, 2006 at 18.41.48 hours):

T.: It is not possible there.
S.: Why?
T.: They need a residence permit for Germany.
S.: What is that?
T.: A stamp for Germany that you can stay here. They stipulate a provision there. Also, no authorised person is present there now.
S.: What are we going to do brother.
T.: We are some unlucky birds.
S.: Then make some reservations for tomorrow when it is present.
T.: When it doesn't succeed, then I will come above today, then I will place them somewhere. And after this tomorrow.
S.: Exactly that way...then you will go there, then you will give the rent directly. Then tomorrow they can go to the police and then they can work immediately.

9. A wiretapped conversation between [S] [suspect Saban B] and [T] [suspect Tayfun K] (November 1, 2006 at 20.06.59 hours):

S.: Say to the girls that they have to save the money. They mustn't spend it here and there..say it. Look, they mustn't fuck with others, we will take care that they will be finished then.
T.: I have said it exactly the same way.
S.: Say it to both of them. They are not allowed to go out with others. (...) they must save the money. Is that okay. (...) in a few days I will take the money...tomorrow, at most the day after tomorrow we will take the money out of their hands.
T.: okay.

10. A wiretapped conversation between [S] [suspect Saban B] and [T] [suspect Tayfun K] (November 1, 2006 at 22.27.13 hours):

T.: I have left them behind (...) I have said it (...) they say agreed.
S.: They say agreed. You should have said about properly saving money.
T.: They will save... They were a little reserved because they had to work naked. (...)
T.: I have said "you are not alone here, everybody does the same" I have said.
S.: Yes.
T.: I will not bring you back again, or else you will buy a ticket here and you can leave. (...) after this she said let me go to Den Haag. I said not today.

11. A wiretapped conversation between [S] [suspect Saban B] and [St] [person 36] (November 6, 2006 at 23.42.05 hours):

S.: I have something to write to you (...) you have to phone for me that ... and ask an evening chamber for your girlfriend you say.
St.: Okay (...) number?
S.: [person 25] is her name.
St.: How?
S.: (spells) [person 25].
S.: That one comes from [person 103].

12. A wiretapped conversation between [S] [suspect Saban B] and [U] [person 73] (November 6, 2006 at 23.55.23 hours):

S.: I am in Den Haag. We have only just arranged the rooms for the girls. Come here.
U.: Okay, I come.

13. A wiretapped conversation between [S] [suspect Saban B] and [K] [person 101] (November 7, 2006 at 21.54.35):

S.: Is there a hotel that you know of in Den Haag (...) we will place our girls there you know...two girls. It doesn't have to be luxurious.
K.: Yes Ibis is okay (...) and there also is a restaurant included where you can eat until 7 o'clock in the morning. A petrol station where you can buy cigarettes etc.
S.: They are not allowed to spend too much money. What the heck are you doing.. This is there and that is there.. There must be nothing present there.

Now I translate a short segment from a file with the LJN-number: BO8383, you can find it here: (a verdict regarding Saban B)

It becomes clear from the statements by [victim 3] as well as the statements by the witness [witness 2] and [witness 1], the mother of [victim 3], that [victim 3] is afraid. Afraid of the suspect and afraid of what could happen to her and her family. She even shows her fear on the occasion of the interrogation at the Counsillor-Commissioner at February 15, 2010, where she states: "(...) I would rather prefer that I don't need to make these statements and that my mother doesn't need to be involved in this. I think that I can still be afraid (...)". That same fear emerges from her statements in July 2005. She states in that, about the threats that the suspect uttered towards her which were meant for her family. On July 29, 2005, [victim 3] indicates towards the police that she doesn't want to bring her family into danger and that's why, out of fear for the suspect, she doesn't want to press charges.
In this context it is furthermore of importance that the mother of [victim 3], [witness 1], on September 1, 2005, has reported to the police in Poland the crime of threatening (see file 38, page 17506-17518). [Witness 1] has stated that mid-July (the court understands: 2005) [victim 3] phoned to her. Her daughter started to cry during the conversation, and she didn't want to say what was going on. After this, [victim 3] sent no news of herself for a while. A couple of days later, [witness 2] - a girlfriend of [victim 3] – phoned, who also stayed in the Netherlands. She said that [victim 3] pressed charges "against the Turk" because he had beaten her. She said that she phoned to say that [victim 3] must drop the charges. She had to do that before Saturday. [Witness 2] started to cry during the telephone conversation. [Witness 2] has told among other things to [witness 1], that there were friends of the Turk with her and they had beaten her. [Witness 2] asked her to influence [victim 3] to withdraw her statement. She said that she, [witness 1], had to take care of herself and her son because they could come to Poland to do something to her. The Turk who was supposedly named [false name 2] and was called "Szabat" (which [victim 3] had already told her earlier on) supposedly had people who arranged everything. They were clearly threatened. On August 29, 2005, [victim 3] phoned again. She said to [witness 1] that she had to take good care of herself and her little son, and that she shouldn't let her little son go outside alone. [Victim 3] said that she had fled. On September 1, 2005, [witness 1] tells among other things, that three men who were unknown to her stood on the yard. They said to her that they had to find out if [victim 3] was in Poland. When [witness 1] said that she would call in the police, the men said that they would blow her up. One of the men said that if [victim 3] would drop the charges, she would be given a lot of money. [Witness 1] has phoned to [witness 3] that day, and has told her what had happened and what was expected of her, namely, that she had to withdraw her statement before 22.00 hours. [Witness 2] has confirmed the statement by [witness 1], in her statement of April 26, 2007. She has stated that the suspect came to her and that she had to phone to the mother of [victim 3] by his order. She had to say that [victim 3] was gone and that she had to make contact with him. When [victim 3] would make contact with the mother, the mother had to say that [victim 3] had to make contact with the suspect, or else there would be trouble.
The court observes that after the events in Poland, where men who remained unknown supposedly threatened the mother of [victim 3], and after the telephone conversation between [witness 1] and [witness 2] (with the content and intent as presented above), [victim 3] withdrew a segment of her earlier statements. The court, taking into account what is mentioned above, considers it plausible that for a part it was related to the aforementioned fear and the incident at her mother's home in Poland, and is not the result of the rectifying of false statements made earlier on. This leaves unimpeded that regarding all parts of her statements, it will be critically assessed in light of the charges, if there is supporting evidence for those statements.
Among other things, the following emerges from the means of evidence.
[Victim 3] has stated that in 2004, she came to the Netherlands to work in prostitution. First she has worked in Alkmaar on the Achterdam. There she got to know the suspect (who also used the name [false name 2]), who was a client of hers. She entered into a relationship with him, went to live with him in Vinkeveen and went working for him in prostitution in Amsterdam and Utrecht. That [victim 3] has worked for the suspect as a prostitute, is confirmed by the witnesses [victim 5], [victim 2] and [person 1]. She worked as many as 12 hours per day. She was brought to work. She had to hand over the money that she earned to the suspect. This is also confirmed by the three aforementioned witnesses. [Victim 3] has stated that she was beaten by the suspect and that she developed black eyes and bruises as a result of that. The mother of [victim 3] has stated that she has seen that [victim 3] had bruises on her body. The witness [witness 5] has stated that she has seen that [victim 3] had bruises and a black eye. [Victim 3] had told her that she was beaten by the suspect. She has also seen herself that the suspect beat [victim 3]. The witness [witness 2] has stated that [victim 3] phoned to her and told that the suspect beat her. [Victim 5] has stated that she knows that the suspect beat [victim 3] and that she, [victim 5] had to make her up to conceal the bruises. Also the witness [victim 6] has stated that the suspect beat [victim 3]. That's what the suspect had told her himself, according to the witness.
[Victim 3] herself as well as [victim 5] and [witness 5] have stated that the suspect forced [victim 3] to stand in the ice-cold water near the house in Vinkeveen. On July 27, 2005, [victim 3] wanted to depart from Schiphol to Poland. On Schiphol, the suspect and a number of other men have tried to obstruct her from leaving. [Victim 3] eventually managed to tear herself away and she went to the military police. The suspect and/or one of the other men have taken/snatched her bag (in which a part of her documents were present among other things), according to [victim 3]. This statement is supported by the prints of camera images and the description of these of the events on July 27, 2005 on Schiphol, which have been included in the report of the crime. It has furthermore turned out at the house search on April 3, 2007 in the house of [fellow suspect 5], that a sports bag was found with goods and official documents belonging to [victim 3].