Friday, September 17, 2010

A new overhaul


Lately I'm thinking what I am going to do with my blog.

I started it initially to warn the world about the horrors of Dutch prostitution. Especially regarding forced prostitution.

Then I started to doubt. Is the Dutch sex industry really so bad? Perhaps prostitution is a lovely job, and all those forced prostitutes are really just jealous girls who turn their boyfriends over to the police after he went with another girl. Or, they are so ashamed about making the choice of working in the sex industry that they tell others they had been forced to do it.

Also, my strong suspicion is, after reading through much material about the Dutch sex industry that the supposed forced prostitutes are mainly Eastern European, African or are young Dutch women who work in window prostitution. Avoid these groups and you can assure yourself of having a very small chance of encountering a forced prostitute.

Also knowing that working in prostitution doesn't have any negative effects on your emotional well-being, I decided that perhaps I could just go to a brothel and enjoy myself. Why not?

This overturns the whole purpose of my blog, so I should really think what I should do with it.

Perhaps the motto of the blog should be: "musings of a Dutch punter who can't find girlfriend and who is sexually frustrated and goes to prostitutes and is afraid that girl is forced, but now knows how to avoid forced girls"

Something like that.

Or : "musings by a Dutch loser, who can't find a girlfriend, decided to visit prostitutes, discovered that some prostitutes are forced, wanted to avoid forced prostitutes, discovered that all prostitutes are forced, thought he could change the world, wanted to warn the world about the Dutch sex industry, doubted about his initial conclusions, starts to visit prostitutes again, and concludes that sex is rape, and describes in detail his adventures with prostitutes."

Something like that.

I think I will use that.

But to turn again to the idea that sex is rape. Do I really believe that? No, I don't. But, I'm disappointed about casual sex. I do believe that sex without intimacy must be very boring. Perhaps sex combined with kissing and cuddling would be nice. I do feel that fucking the one you love doggystyle is really embarassing, let alone a prostitute. Just like masturbating inside another person's body. Really demeaning. So I have to think about this when I visit prostitutes again. Problem is, that this is the only position I can manage. Or she sits on top of me, but I noticed that some prostitutes have difficulties with this position because it is to physically demanding for them.

Furthermore, I wanted to say something again. I do get angry messages from people who believe that working in prostitution is very traumatizing. I just have to keep on stressing that this is simply not true. For evidence, go to this post:
no link between working in prostitution and stress


Anonymous said...

I am not certain that any recent revelation has or should have overturned the purpose of your blog.

Most of the discourse on this subject is conducted by activists, whether abolitionists who believe every woman who is selling sex is forced by definition and that a woman cannot choose to work in the sex industry, or “myth debunkers” such as Laura Agustín who take the opposing view, believing forced prostitution and pimping to be so rare as to be of no consequence.

Neither grouping makes much attempt at impartiality or at genuine truth seeking, and the abolitionists particularly can conduct themselves with considerable aggression. I suspect you have experienced this.

You write of your “quest to find the ‘voluntary prostitute’ in the Netherlands”, and of how a client of prostitutes might be able to separate those women who sell sex by choice from those who do not. It seems to me that you continue to attempt to discover this. Yours was never an abolitionist blog, nor does it dismiss the existence of forced prostitution.

Incidentally, I don’t accept that working in prostitution cannot be traumatising, only that it is not traumatising by definition, and that experiencing such trauma is not an inevitable consequence of selling sex.
I believe any woman forced to sell sex will suffer trauma, whether or not she suffers or reports a measurable psychiatric illness as a consequence. Equally, a woman who chooses sex work need not become traumatised by her choice of occupation.

Cliente X said...

Greetings, Donkey.

I’m glad to find another John in the web; it’s not common to find an approximation to the prostitution from our point of view. I run a blog that may interest you, although it`s in Spanish. It’s called Barrio Rojo, un espacio sexual liberado, which means “Red Light District, a liberated sexual space”.

I really encourage you to keep your blog and your investigations. I have still read a few posts from this site, but I see that you are a nice -maybe too innocent- guy that just wanted to know how prostitution really is. You began trying to find a “voluntary” prostitute but ended seeking for a “forced” one, because you realized that sexual slavery is not as common as it’s said. In fact I have met hundreds of sexual workers, during several years, and still no one of them has been forced. Actually I think that forced prostitution it`s just an invention to charge against all prostitution, what I have found are false arrests as the Aphrodita Operation, many times sexual workers complain that their homes are assaulted by police forces that rob them, and in street level prostitution that girls must pay a ‘fee’ or ‘tax’ to policemen. Well, basically that prostitution is not only very different as I thought when I viewed it from outside, but in fact is the opposite: prostitution gives a lot of freedom and possibilities to the girls, they are ok in their job and sometimes they even enjoy, forced prostitution is marginal (if it exists at all) and the actual mafias come from the police (or maybe the government? Who gives the orders?). Wouw, it’s a real shock! But it’s THE TRUTH; it’s what I and many others have found (I use both a direct approach, via my own experience, to this issue and an academic one through studies, documentaries, interviews to professionals, etc).

Finally I think that maybe because you haven’t had a “conventional” GF you are so disappointed with prostitution. Think that many other men, who have girlfriend or wife, go to prostitutes. Do you think they are satisfied with their partners? Not just lonely men are frustrated.

Donkey, keep the good work. Congratulations from Spain.

Cliente X, a proud john

Donkey said...

You notice something very peculiar about me Cliente X! While I say that I'm searching for the voluntary prostitute, it turns out that in reality I'm searching for forced prostitutes! So, in reality I'm not that much interested in voluntary prostitutes after all. So, I should change that in my intro as well!

However, I do think forced prostiution is real, and big. I think the extent of it differs from country to country, from place to place, from time to time. I think the problem is small (relatively) in countries such as Australia and New Zealand. And I think that it is big in the Netherlands and Belgium. And I do believe that in the last two countries the problems are getting less over time. Read my post about Eastern European prostitutes and perhaps you will understand.

I think the fact that the extent of forced prostitution is so different from place to place or time to time, causes much of the confusion about it. It might explain why you don't encounter forced prostitutes that often. It could be that the prostitutes you meet operate in a place (or time) where forced prostitution is rare. So, perhaps you're lucky.

I agree that the government and police are often not nice towards prostitutes.

Cliente X said...

K, can u please gimme the link to ur post about eastern european pros? I'm friend of many romanian girls and no one of them has been forced as far as I know.

If u want u can take a look of some of my posts about this topic:
· Campaign blue heart against traffic of women:

· Identification of sexual explotation:

· Death in live, an Oi! song about this issue:

PS: there must be organizations of sexual workers in the Netherlands, have you ever spoken with one? I mean the ones that work FOR the prostitutes, not AGAINST them (as usually happens here in Spain).

Cliente X, always a john

Donkey said...

The post about Eastern European prostitutes is here:
click here

In the Netherlands you have the Red Thread (Rode Draad), but their life is hanging on a thread. They aren't supported financially by prostitutes, but by the government. But the government doesn't give them enough money anymore.

You know Romanian prostitutes? What is their situation? I know that prostitutes are rarely kidnapped. But in the case of the prostitutes you know, how much money can they keep for themselves? Isn't there a bad boyfriend in the background who keeps all their money?

As an example, I chat a lot with Romanian camgirls. And then you find out that the website keeps 50%, the studio where they works keeps the 50% of the rest. So the girls themselves keep only 25%. How is the situation for the Romanian prostitutes you know?

Another example. The last brothel I visited kept two-thirds of the money a client gives to the prostitutes. So only a third is left for the girls. If there is a pimp in the background who takes 50% of what's left of it, then only one sixth is left for the girl. And if the girl has to a large pay rent to a shady landlord to live in a ramshackle home there's even less money left.

I would consider this a forced situation too!

Cliente X said...

Wouw, what a long post! I`ll read it later.

I never trust on public aided organizations, they aren`t independient. If you want to be able to say what you want and defend thing you believe, first of all you need economic freedom.

I`m friend of many romanian prostitutes, and their situation is different depending the place they are working in. The more openly they offer prostituion, the more they earn. First of all there are flats where they can engage in prostitution, this model is caracterized by its discretion but they make low profit. They earn fifty per cent of they money the customer pays (but they agree to it, its "explotation" but not "slavery"). They are earning around 1500-3000 euro monthly, half than before the economic crisis, that is being DEVASTATING here is Spain due the actions of our socialist government (over 20% of unemployement...)

Same way of work have the girls working in urban clubs, but they earn more. In "highway clubs" or "roadside clubs" (I don`t know how to traslate properly to english) they pay a fix daily fee in concept of food and rent of room. This is because spanish law what forbids is to earn money directly from a prostitute (what happens as I told you in urban clubs and flats, anyway they avoid the law paying a "tax" to the police, not oficially of course). They use to pay around 50-70 € daily to the club, but all the money they get is theirs. Well, johns have to pay a drink and also the room. They get between 3000-6000 euro monthy, that also is half the money they were earning three years ago.

Finally streetwalkers are the ones, contrary to popular belief, that are making more money. They can obtain up to 10-12 k euro monthly, of which they can pay a weekly fee to the mafia that controls the street, the policemen. They ask them between 100 and 400 euro weekly depending of the place and hour in which they work, so by percentage they are the ones who keep more. Notice that I`m speaking of ROMANIAN street ho's: african, drug users or old prostitutes are earning MUCH less (some of them just over one thousand euro a month). And that they earn money not only fucking, but also selling drugs (or what they pretend to be drugs) and robbing drunken guys or tourists. They are very clever girls, hehe. As other groups, their income also has been drastrically reduced in the last years.

Cliente X, its a pleasure to answer you

Donkey said...

Okay, thanx for the information.

In the Netherlands too the income for prostitutes has dropped drastically. But that already happened before the economic crisis. It seems here that fewer men visit prostitutes. Perhaps a change of culture.

Regarding the Eastern European prostitutes, it seems that the situation is improving. If you read my post about Eastern European prostitutes in the Netherlands, you see that in the nineties their situation was really dire. Lots of violence, exploitation and the such. Now, there is less violence and more of a business relationship between them and the pimps, where they still have to hand over a lot of money.

I hope in the future they will be completely independent.

This situation reflects that of Latin American prostitutes. Years ago these women were really young and often controlled by pimps. Now they are a lot older on average and independent. I think I also see that trend among Eastern European prostitutes, especially the Polish women who are getting older.

However, I was in Amsterdam lately and it strikes me that the women on de Wallen are really young and nearly all Eastern European. Nearly all are younger than 25. So it seems that pimps control the flow of the women. These women are not independent, or else you would also see lots of older Eastern European prostitutes.